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Author Topic: New rule  (Read 3485 times)

KillerPenguin

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New rule
« on: January 04, 2014, 07:42:45 PM »
Can we make it a server rule to have it so people cant log out in ur base. it ruins the whole idea if safety in a base when a whole squad can log out in your base a relog when they see that your on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

AlmightyWez

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Re: New rule
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2014, 09:56:27 AM »
It sucks but it happens even to the admin bases, they just deal with it. Hence, building bases partially in the woods so its harder for people to drop in from a heli. Since the base at Altar was built, probably 20-30 people have got in there and have killed anyone in there or have blown up vehicles. Its just part of the game. Short of just building a house and putting a locked door up, not much you can do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Daimyo21

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Re: New rule
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2014, 03:41:09 PM »
Im sure if agreed upon, we can make logging out in someones base the same as logging out near debug (with the new base system we are discussing, itd make perfect sense).  Your spawn would get reset to a random fresh spawn or we could even teleport players around the perimeter of the base they logged out in.  We could even give a warning message when players are logging out in an enemy base that these things will occur.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

kassquatch

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Re: New rule
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2014, 07:30:37 PM »
Then you would have to determine friend from foe. and since your tag only remembers your last five, if you have a group of more than 5, they would get kicked out of your base.

Nice theory, but wouldnt work

Build your bases better. Dont rely on others to make up for your failure to prepare
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

AlmightyWez

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Re: New rule
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 08:50:27 AM »
Quote from: "kassquatch"
Then you would have to determine friend from foe. and since your tag only remembers your last five, if you have a group of more than 5, they would get kicked out of your base.

Nice theory, but wouldnt work

Build your bases better. Dont rely on others to make up for your failure to prepare

Agreed. I think base defense is part of what makes the game fun for me, even though you do run the risk of people getting in. Thats just part of the game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Armifer

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Re: New rule
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 01:37:24 PM »
It's a sandbox game, where the design of your base determines its defense. This is NOT going to be a new rule, and this idea is not something that can easily be enforced. The only sure 100% way to prove this is if you had the player on video logging in/out of your base, with exact date and time stamp, and screenshots of the player list showing everyone that was on at that specific time so that we can cross reference to the logs who logged off during that time, and check their world position before they log back in to see if it is within your base. You get what I'm getting at here? Admins are not here to do this kind of thing. Their job is to catch hackers, and enforce the existing rules that keep exploits and glitching out of fair play.

Once the game becomes about rules, then its not a game anymore, when players try to fight over rules to win rather than putting a bullet in their enemies head. Minimal rules on our server out of common sense, are to give as much freedom to the player as possible, and limit controlling them. The game was not designed for the players to be controlled, in a controlled environment. Games like Left 4 dead, Zombie Panic, etc have built in rule sets into the code to have the players play the game a specific way. Dayz does not have this, its unscripted game play and story created by the player, which gives them freedom to play the game as they want.

Mozzies, littlebirds, jumping on cars, fast roping, etc are all ways to get over walls and into someones base. To prevent this build proper defenses.
-Compartmentalize the base, put lockable doors on every doorway.
-Keep the garage separate from the main compound.
-Build roofing, over the entire area (use the saw mill pens, or the epoch metal floors).
-Make walled 'drive way' with a double gate, or an 'airlock' gate (2 gates, 3 panels. 1st panel opens only front gate, 2nd panel closes front gate and opens 2nd gate, 3rd panel can only close 2nd gate from inside).
-Have discipline, and lock every door, safe, lockbox, car, turret, MG nest, etc as soon as your done using it. (Crinklestar forbids leaving unlocked doors at altar, he'll shoot you if you do it, and there are about a dozen doors!)

What we can do, with our next version of base building, is make logging out inside a persons base the same as combat logging. Basically if the player disconnects near the 'flag pole' (new plot pole) and he is not on the friendly list to that base, it will set him as a combat log that makes him infected, bleeding, in pain, and unconscious for 5 minutes. The abort button could be disabled for non-friendlies inside the radius of the base. We prefer to script in mechanics to prevent undesired behavior so that the game prevents/handles it for us. This doesn't mean we will do this, or that it will be against the rules if we do. This just creates a game mechanic that punishes a player who doesn't have a plan to get back out of your base once inside. If he is well hidden and kills you once you open your safe, then you are being punished for not building proper defenses and clearing you base before opening things. It is really that simple, enough of the 'care bear' crap, more PEW PEW and less QQ, unless 'Hello kitty Island Adventure' is your thing :|

*Edit*
Forgot to mention, with the headless client AI and base building 1.3+ versions, once converted to epoch, there is an option to have AI that can be hired to guard your base. We could tweak if they respawn or not (time delayed automatic reinforcements option for extra gold), or if they just spawn on restart. So if someone is logging into your base, they will always have to fight the AI who is on guard duty.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

VanZan

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Re: New rule
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 09:24:19 PM »
We had this rule on the server I use to Admin.  I wrote a pretty extensive "Rules of Engagement" for that server after compiling and getting player votes.  Regarding logging out in a base, the below rule applied on our server.  It was called FOB logging because the question of it's "legality" first arose when someone logged out inside a FOB (Forward Operating Base that we added to the game - had a couple of barracks and was completely walled in with Hesco barriers, so teams could get there and try to hold it while they loot cycled - it was a frequent area for team vs. team skirmishes).  I think the rule below worked because IRL, if you clear a building (say a barracks) by searching every room (i.e. the 5 rooms in our typical barracks), then walk out of the barracks and guard the door, you would reasonably expect that no other enemy could just "appear" in the back room.  With the capability to see who is logged in a server, it seems unfair that someone could wait till they see you log in, then "appear out of thin-air" in your base, or any other closed in structure. Therefore, we made the rule that logging out inside a building was prohibited.  

Anyways, here's the rule that we added to the server.  Not saying we should have it on Dead Meat, but thought it was interesting that it came up here:

7. FOB-logging is strictly prohibited. FOB-logging is defined as: disconnecting from the game while in any confined space. A confined space is defined as any in-game area that has walls and a limited number of entry points (the term FOB-logging is simply used because of the origin of the need to create this rule and does not only apply to FOBs, but any building within the game space).

a. Logging out of the game inside of a building or FOB is prohibited because any player that has taken the time to clear and secure that space should be reasonably assured that no player will “spawn” in behind him, while he is watching the few entry points to that enclosed space.

b. If you accidentally FOB-log (i.e. lose connection, computer crashes, ping too high while in an enclosed space), you must immediately inform an Admin. The admin can check the Admin Tools to see if the enclosed space is clear for you to log back on, or possibly move you away if the space is not clear.

c. FOB-logging will result in the following punishments:
i. 1st offense: Deletion of all your gear and assignment of the “DRCL Prison Skin” for a period of 10 in-game hours.
ii. 2nd offense: Deletion of all your gear and assignment of the “DRCL Prison Skin” for a period of 20 in-game hours.
iii. 3rd offense: Perma-ban.
iv. Note: All of the punishments above will be highly advertised to make sure all players are aware that there is a player on the server with a “DRCL Prison Skin” (ala Scarlet Letter).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

VanZan

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Re: New rule
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 06:40:36 PM »
Oh, and Armifer, you said: "Once the game becomes about rules, then its not a game anymore".  But game theory's guiding principle is about rules and rule complexes.  You can't have a game without rules.  Obviously, like you said, your goal is to minimize rules to give the player more freedom (as well as reduce the admin's load) and I like that approach.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Botox

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Re: New rule
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 08:44:04 AM »
add an item the house owner controls to add a player to house list if player is not on list he gets booted out past 30m base restriction
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Armifer

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Re: New rule
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 04:17:50 PM »
In the new base building 1.35, we are able to add friendlies to the plot poles for various persistent functions, even if the owner is offline.

I can add to this functionality, that if a player is near a plot pole that he is not listed as friendly on, it puts him into combat while he is within 45m. Logging off would cause a combat log, which results in infection, bleeding, pain, and a 5 minute knock out timer. If you feel that is not enough, as they could just log out in a hidden area, wait 5 minutes, then patch themselves up... I could make it severely disable the player. For example if you log out in the base while in combat, they could get a 15 minute timer, or be insta-killed upon login, or reduce health by half while keeping a 5min timer, etc etc. I could set the range to be 30m or 45m around the plot pole. Another option would be to create a base asset that could warn players when there is a player in their base who is not listed as friendly on their plot pole. This way, an alarm would sound, or text displayed, or position revealed within plot radius only on the map, so they know he is there. These are ideas and options, that I could most likely create at some point if there is great interest in this.

The only issue I see with this is that a player who crashes during combat in someones base, is penalized severely, and that it makes attacking a base much riskier and harder.

Discuss!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Digdug

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Re: New rule
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 08:12:59 PM »
A combat logging penalty would be reasonable as it would force the invader(s) to more rapidly use up their supplies or die waiting for the occupants. Anything more seems excessive to me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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mototank14

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Re: New rule
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 10:37:53 PM »
i dont mind if a player logs in another's base. if there was an opening for them to get into without glitching whats the difference if they log in and out in base then just come back later.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Digdug

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Re: New rule
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 07:00:04 AM »
Quote from: "mototank14"
i dont mind if a player logs in another's base. if there was an opening for them to get into without glitching whats the difference if they log in and out in base then just come back later.

It's not really about logging inside the base though moto. It's about people who break in and then literally spend days or even weeks hiding in there and logging in only to ambush the base owners and log again once they're gone. Breaking into a base to raid it is one thing, but literally camping in there for days is another. Since people can see when others are on it's easy to set up ambushes in what is, in theory, someone's home. I'm hesitant to use real life examples with a game but it makes no sense that a guy could wander around someone's house for days completely unhindered. He'd be noticed and dealt with. Optimally, that's what would happen in this situation anyway but I think this penalty is more about stopping hardcore campers/trolls than it is about punishing base raiders as a whole. I'm probably in the minority though so *shrug*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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AlmightyWez

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Re: New rule
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 07:30:14 AM »
i like the idea of the player being knocked out if they log off around the plot hole, assuming they're not on the "friends" list for the area. Along those lines as well, what about the "sentry" base option that was being discussed? If you have an AI roaming your plot hole area, they can also deal with intruders that are deemed enemies by not being friends with the plot hole owner.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Armifer

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Re: New rule
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 12:00:12 AM »
Quote from: AlmightyWez
i like the idea of the player being knocked out if they log off around the plot hole, assuming they're not on the "friends" list for the area. Along those lines as well, what about the "sentry" base option that was being discussed? If you have an AI roaming your plot hole area, they can also deal with intruders that are deemed enemies by not being friends with the plot hole owner.

The AI guard will come in a future update, Im focusing on the new build system integration into epoch smoothly first, then will look at various AI packages, and determine if it will run on the client or the server via headless client.

As for the log off near an enemy plot pole, that is something much faster to do, but before I start, I need to know exactly what the community wants. PM this thread to our active players in TS3, and encourage players in side chat to come discuss this!